Church Hurt

On this emotional episode of the Cheer Up Podcast, hosts Kara R Hunt and Cheri Swalwell come together to offer heartfelt prayers for healing and unity. We reflect on the profound grief experienced by the victims' families, including the man who lost his life protecting his loved ones. As we give thanks for the former president's safety, we emphasize the urgent need for national unity and introspection.

Ever been frustrated by the perceived hypocrisies in your church community? You're not alone. In this episode, we dissect modern-day struggles, showing how easily distractions and doubts can undermine our faith. 

Have you ever been hurt by someone in your church? It can lead to a deep crisis of faith. Join us as we recount personal stories of church hurt and betrayal, exploring how such experiences can shake our trust in our faith community. We'll share practical ways to separate human mistakes from the Divine and the importance of seeking healing through understanding and forgiveness. Recognizing the enemy's tactics, we'll discuss how unforgiveness can pull us away from our faith and the necessity of extending grace and mercy. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Chirr Nation. This is Kara R Hunt of the Chirr Up Podcast. Your host of the Chirr Up Podcast, and with me is Sherri Swalwell. And today, concerning a lot of the things that just happened this past weekend with the failed attempted assassination of former President Donald J Trump in our country, right now, at this time, the two of us just wanted to get together and just say a prayer. This week's episode is going to be an encore episode of the Screwtape Letter, so I know everyone's probably waiting on that, but we just hope you don't mind and we just kind of just say a prayer right now for the country. Are you ready, sherry? Yes, I am Okay.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Lord, father God, thank you so much, father God. You are an awesome God. Father God, there is none other like you. None can compare to your goodness and your mercy and your glory. Father God, you are holy, you are magnificent, you are the most high God, you are Jehovah Jireh, you are Jehovah Rapha and you are Jehovah Shalom, father God, and we just thank you, father God.

Speaker 1: 1:17

First of all, we just thank you, father God, for sparing the former president's life on the attempted assassination over this past weekend. And, father God, we just ask and we touch, because our hearts are broken over the people that lost their lives Not only one of the attendees at the rally that lost their lives a man who lost his life protecting his family, lord but also the young man who was the shooter. He was killed also, and his family is having to deal with the aspects of that, as well as all the guilt and the shame and or embarrassment and or humiliation that they may be receiving, not just from the public, but possibly from even law enforcement. Father God, with their houses being ransacked, with people demanding answers and whether they knew anything about what their son was about to do, whether they were complicit or whether they were completely blown away. Father God, only you know the truth of what happens, but it doesn't negate the fact that their son's life was lost. It doesn't negate the fact that another man's life was lost, who left a grieving family while he was trying to protect them from bullets. And, father God, we just lift them up to you in prayer and we just ask that you just surround them with your peace, like they have never, ever known, with such a peace that comes, that can only come from you, father God, and we just ask that, if that attempted assassin's family did not know you, father God, that today will be the day that they do know you, that this whole incident would draw them closer to the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, that it would draw them closer to you, father God, and that they would dedicate and make a decision for Christ as a result of all of this and walk with you as they plan to bury a loved one.

Speaker 1: 3:10

And I pray the same thing for the older gentleman that was lost as well, who was protecting his family. Be with them, father God. They are so heartbroken. They went to that rally just expecting you know to go there to support you know, a presidential candidate at Raleigh, just expecting you know to go there to support, you know, a presidential candidate, and, as a family, and they leave their one family member left I mean, excuse me, lost as a result of that. How shocking, how heartbreaking, how heartrending, and Sherry's and I hearts are just feel the same. Probably not the same because we didn't know the individual, but we feel their heartache by the God, and if anyone can heal that heartache, it is you. And so we just lift them up to Him in prayer as well, father God, and we pray. Peace over our country, the United States of America. Father God, we pray for that, instead of people being divided, that everyone will, just across the aisle, become united in Jesus' name. Sherry, I know you wanted to pray as well.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Dear Heavenly Father, we just come to you today. We thank you. We thank you for saving the life of President Donald Trump, former President Donald Trump. We thank you, lord, for his leadership. We thank you for the miracles that we saw, lord, I thank you for the people in the news that are proclaiming your name that are speaking that it was your divine intervention, your protection, lord, that kept him alive. And, lord, we know that you did not want anyone to lose their life that day.

Speaker 2: 4:44

We know that you are with that family who is grieving, and we thank you that. That man who lost his life knows you and is with you now.

Speaker 2: 4:52

We know that you are not going to lose his family without your love and without your protection. You are Jehovah Jireh, you are Jehovah Rapha. You will heal their hearts and you will provide for their needs. And, lord, we pray for the shooter's family as well. We pray that in these last moments, that he called out to you and that he also knows your presence. Now we don't know why he did what he did but, lord, there is evil in this world and we know that, and we thank you for your divine hand of protection. In fact, right now, I pray for your hand, lord, and Jesus' blood to be covering all of these people that are listening.

Speaker 2: 5:38

From the top of their heads to the sides of their heads.

Speaker 2: 5:43

We pray right now for your hand of protection in Jesus' blood around our entire family, front to back, side to side, top to bottom, and that you will put and that you will bring us all home safely together tonight, lord, we pray for our nation, we pray for our country and we pray that you will use this horrific incident to have us wake up, to have us realize that we are divided and it's only our choices that can bring us back together. Lord, it's okay to agree, to disagree, but there are ways to handle that, and that is not what's been happening lately. Lord, use this as a wake-up call for everyone, for us to show love and compassion like you do, to show your love to those around us. We know you can, we know that that is what the United States used to be and we know that we can do that again. We just thank you, Lord, we repent of our evil duty and of taking you out of the schools and the government and the community and our families, and we ask you, we beg you.

Speaker 2: 7:08

We thank you for coming back, we thank you for healing our nation, we thank you for restoring relationships and we thank you, lord, that you can have a country that loves you and serves you and has you in the forefront again. It's a choice, lord. We choose, we choose you. In Jesus' holy, precious name. We say all the glory, honor and praise. In Jesus' name, precious name, we say all the glory, honor and praise.

Speaker 1: 7:41

In Jesus' name, amen, amen and amen. Thank you all for listening and we thank you for joining in prayer with us and we hope you enjoy the upcoming podcast. Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast. I am your host, tamara Hunt, and with me is the lovely and beautiful Sherri Swalwell. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 8:16

today, sherry, I am doing fantastic. I can tell that it is June because I can hear the birds singing outside through the windows. The windows are closed and yet I can still hear them. And we have already seen indigo buntings and Baltimore Orioles and rose something grosbeak, I mean like we are something Grosbeak, I mean like we are oh the.

Speaker 1: 8:40

Grosbeaks with the little ruby color under their neck. Yeah, yes, yes, we have seen all this year already.

Speaker 2: 8:47

We have seen so many early and I'm loving it.

Speaker 1: 8:52

I know my front porch. I have one, two, three, maybe four hanging baskets. Of all of them are faux flowers. Okay, f-a-u-x faux flowers and in these baskets, right, and but they look real. They look real. And you know, just these nice little faux baskets, you know, out there, they're like greenery, you know, and everything else, and we put them out there in the spring, lo and behold, it's just, maybe one or two of those faux baskets have birds nesting in them. You know, the birds have found a way to make their home in those little baskets, you know, and I always find it funny, and I'm like you would think they were to something real, you know, like a real tree branch, and heaven knows we have lots of trees around our property, you know, or anything else, and I'm like, but they like my little fake stuff. Isn't that funny? Yes, and I'm going. Why are you guys?

Speaker 1: 9:58

you know, and I thought it was cute, though I did have a. I did get mad at the birds the other day because I also have another plant on my front porch and it's like faux tall grass. I can't think of the name of the grass, but it's got like little furry, little strings on it and you see it like growing in a wild field and I don't know. It's about three feet tall or whatever, and it just really adds color to the porch without me having to maintain you know a lot. My front porch is covered, so getting sun for real plants to grow and thrive is difficult.

Speaker 2: 10:36

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 10:37

You know, it's just very, very difficult. All my sun, I mean the majority of my sun, is on my deck, which is where I have the real flowers, you know, because it just hits it hard and it stays there for a minute. So me trying to grow real flowers on the front is just, except for the ones I have in, like my little wildflower section, the ones that are covered by the porch they just won't thrive, but anyway. So I have this three-foot one and it has like these little fur feathery things on it and the birds were just picking them. I watched her put in a whole mouthful of them. She picked every little pluck. Oh, I would be mad. She picked every pluck. She kept picking plucks and plex and plex and plex.

Speaker 1: 11:17

She had a whole mouthful of these furry little strings, you know and everything. And she would fly up to one of those little baskets that she was making her nest in. And I'm like you, you're the one.

Speaker 1: 11:29

I kept wondering what was happening. You know, you're the one. And she had like a whole mouthful of them, you know, in her beak, you know, and they were just laying there, you know, inside her beak, and she'd just pick some more, pick some more, pick some more. She had like a whole lot of them in her beak and then she'd fly up there and I guess she was just making it soft for her little babies. That was on the way. You know, or do I have that wrong? I'm saying she, you know, or do I have that wrong? I'm saying she, it's the male birds that go out and gather. Wait a minute. No, I think it's the women. Is it the women birds? Okay, the female birds, okay. Is it them that go ahead? And you know that, go and do the nesting? Okay, and you know what?

Speaker 2: 12:09

I have a question for you Is she mothering or is she home decorating? Is she your interior designer? Because she's rearranging your floral arrangements.

Speaker 1: 12:20

She is completely rearranging my arrangements you know, completely, I'm like wait a minute, where did that come from? Like I didn't put that in there, you know. And then you know she'll sit there, and then she'll go on top of my little tall grass thing and she'll sit there, she'll sing, she'll talk, you know she'll sit there and then she'll go on top of my little tall grass thing and she'll sit there, she'll sing, she'll talk, you know whatever. And then she'll just, you know, grab the little things or whatever, and then she'll just take them back up there and I'm like you're lucky, you're cute, you're lucky.

Speaker 2: 12:50

Well see, people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars and you're getting it for free.

Speaker 1: 12:56

I know right she's like. I'm just trying to help you out a little bit here. Okay, you know, you just needed some more color in these little baskets.

Speaker 2: 13:06

I'm just helping you out, you know.

Speaker 1: 13:08

so it's really, really funny. You know, and we have right in front of the house is a huge sugar maple where a lot of them live. A lot of different birds live in there, and this time of year she's full of bloom, right, she's just fully covered in trees. And I remember my neighbor said one time because they don't have a tree in their yard yet, or not a sugar maple, I should say, and I think she said she closed the car door one time early in the morning and all these birds came out. Oh my gosh, she's like Carol, these birds came out of your tree and I'm like I know there's so many of them in that tree you can't even see them Until like a loud noise surprises them, you know, and then all of a sudden it's like you're all these flutter of wings, you know, and then they just fly. So they love that sugar maple.

Speaker 2: 14:02

We have a sugar maple too, and that's where we have our bird feeders. And yes, you're right, they congregate there, they congregate.

Speaker 1: 14:09

But I love our sugar maple.

Speaker 2: 14:11

I love it.

Speaker 1: 14:13

I know, yeah, I name our trees, so she's Hadassah. You know, hannah is in the back, she's a Colorado Aspen, you know, and everything else. But yeah, and I think Hadassah loves the company. She gets lonely during the winter, so it all works out you know, all her friends come back in the spring.

Speaker 1: 14:36

That's important, that's important. That's very, very important. That's important. That's very, very important. So, for those of you who may just now be joining us, welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast and this episode well, actually this whole, if you've been listening, at least for the month of June. For the month of June that we are talking about the classic literature book, the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis, and so if you want to look up that book, or buy the book, or download the book, the e-book or whatnot, it's the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis. And again, I believe the first original came out in 1941. There have been multiple reprints since then. So I think, whichever publisher or whatnot you go with, I think they all just are the same original, just perhaps different publishers.

Speaker 1: 15:29

And we are talking about the Screwtape Letters and this is our third, I think, episode on it. We're going to be talking about it for the months of June, july and August. And why are we talking about the Screwtape Letters? The Screwtape Letters is exactly what it says it is.

Speaker 1: 15:48

It's a group of letters from Screwtape, and Screwtape is a demon and he is writing letters to his nephew, wormwood, and so Wormwood has just acquired, as they say, a new patient or a human, and he's trying to lead him down a garden path, as they say, lead him down a road of destruction, and so that's what he's doing. And so that's what he's doing. He's a low-level demon and his uncle, screwtape, is writing him letters on how best to handle the human to get him to end up in hell with him and his friends and their quote-unquote father, who we all know to be Satan. So we went into depth about a little bit more in depth about the book and about the scriptures relating to demons in the Bible, and we did a lot of that in the very first episode of this series that we're talking about, and that is on the June 7th episode.

Speaker 1: 16:51

So if you want to go back and you want to look at the scriptures about demons and how they can manipulate people, how they can possess people, how they can oppress people and even animals, where do demons come from all of that? We gave a list of scriptures and everything else in that June 7th episode and just a little bit more about the book and why we're covering it. And the book has 31 chapters and each episode for the month of June, july and August. We're just going to take a chapter and talk about the main topic of that chapter. And so today we are with letter number two or chapter two. We are with letter number two or chapter two, depending on, I think, which version of the book you get. It may say letter, it may say chapter, but we're talking about letter number two in the book, and so this episode is titled Love of Neighbor versus Hatred, you know. And letter two is interesting in the fact that when you read letter two and again these letters are not very long because it's just from one demon to the other, from uncle demon to nephew demon, and the uncle is just, he's just writing letters on trying to school the younger demon on how to properly do things Well.

Speaker 1: 18:24

And letter number two Uncle Screwtape is pretty upset. He is upset that Wormwood, his nephew Wormwood, has allowed his human to become a Christian become a Christian, and because Wormwood was assigned to him before, he refers to it as the patient, but before the human became a Christian. And so now Uncle Screwtape finds out that his nephew Wormwood has somehow dropped the ball and let the young man become a Christian, and he's upset about it. He's disappointed in it and he says he's going to be punished for it. But nevertheless, not to lose hope, because there's still work to be done while he's a very young and immature Christian and so he's like I want you to put thoughts into his brain about his spiritual immaturity and an effort to win him back over to our side, meaning the dark side. He's like no need to despair, we got this. I mean, you dropped the ball on this one, but it's not over yet, right, the fat lady hasn't sung, he's new to this whole Christianity thing, so we still got some ground to work with.

Speaker 1: 19:50

And these are the things and thoughts and ways I want you to influence him and the thoughts I need you to put into his mind, you know, and everything like that, and one of the things he suggests is, like you know, what we're going to do is, when he starts going to church, I want you to start highlighting the strange and crazy habits, you know, of the people sitting around him. You know, and the hypocrisy of it. Like that guy over there isn't that the local grocer and wasn't he doing something with someone else? Or something like that, and you know. Have him focus on hypocrisies of the people around him. Have him focus on his own spiritual maturity. Like can I really do this? Like I've never read the Bible, I've never done this, and so that's what he is trying to do. He is trying to distract the young Christian's mind. Wow, what did you think about letter two, sherry?

Speaker 2: 20:45

mind. Wow, what did you think about letter two, Sherry? I think, to be honest with you, it is so apropos for this whole book is so apropos for society today because I think that with with the mentality that we have of you can't offend anybody. You have to be careful, you know, don't offend. Don't offend, which is true, Like like you want to when you go to church. Well, okay.

Speaker 2: 21:06

So I've always heard the phrase hurt people, hurt people. Hurt people are the ones that should be at church, Like the church is for the sick, not the healthy. Yes, there are healthy people at church, but everybody, everybody has issues and, regardless of how much freedom God gives us, we live in an imperfect world. So we're always going to pick up more issues, Like we're never going to be free from issues until we're in heaven. So hurt people, hurt people. Something to keep in mind. There are healthy people at church, but even healthy people get hurt, so our focus needs to be on our relationship with God. It's that whole mind shifting that we were talking about earlier. I think it was in June 7th that we were talking about the whole mind shift.

Speaker 1: 21:51

Oh, yeah, the June 7th episode right.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Yeah, when we have that mind shift or that mind, you just have to shift your mindset a little bit. You don't have to change it completely. But when we shift our mindset from looking around us and judging everything that could go wrong to what do you want to teach me and how can I be a blessing, it makes all the difference in the world and that is, I think, the difference between the heart of a believer and somebody who is not living with a heavenly focus. And I'm not saying that non-believers can't be kind and loving and have a mind focus of, or a mindset of, how can I be a blessing to others. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the Holy Spirit is the one that helps me do it. I know that if I didn't have the Holy Spirit living in me, I would be a heck of a lot crabbier than what I am.

Speaker 1: 22:47

Yeah, and who knows what type of road we will be on. To be truthful, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Exactly, exactly. But then again, I think that in today's society we also have to prayerfully, when there's something going on at our church and we're given that nudge by the Holy Spirit and.

Speaker 2: 23:06

I'm not okay. I guess I shouldn't just say church but when there's something going on that we see, whether it's in our circle of friends, whether it's in our job, whether it's in our church, whether it's in our community group, whether it's in a after-school activity or a Bible study, whatever it is, whatever kind of activity that we do if there is something there that grieves the Holy Spirit or that gives us that nudge, then I think we need to prayerfully bring it before the Holy Spirit and say is this something that you want me to speak the truth and love about? Because sometimes they're doing it willingly and willfully and they're sitting on purpose, because they don't care, sometimes it's a pride thing and sometimes they just truly don't know. Like I had an example in a different church that I went to and my husband and I were serving and it was the first time my husband had ever served and the youth pastor who we were serving under, he was showing favoritism. He was just, it was just very blatantly obvious and I didn't want to say anything to him.

Speaker 2: 24:09

I thought, okay, he's just being a jerk. Maybe that's just the way he is. It's not my business. God, you deal with him. I don't want to deal with him. And God said, no, he needs somebody to point it out to him in love. He needs somebody who's going to show him that he'll listen to. And I'm like, well, that's not me. And God's like, well, yeah, it kind of is. I'm like giving you that assignment, are you going to take it or not?

Speaker 2: 24:31

And I literally wrestled with it with God for months because I was a people pleaser and I didn't want to ruffle feathers. I didn't really necessarily care about him and I'm not saying that in a rude way, but I'm saying I didn't care if I offended him necessarily because I didn't have like a deep friendship with him. I just didn't like to ruffle feathers in general and I didn't want to be seen as that person and so, but God wouldn't let me let it go. And so I asked for, I called for a meeting with him, went there shaking the whole time. I'm like I just do not want to be doing this. He was even in the meeting. He was very rushed, he was very rude, he was very abrasive, he was like I mean, it was very obvious, let's get this over with. I have better things to do. I don't want to even be spending my afternoon with you type of a thing.

Speaker 2: 25:23

And his assumption was that I was complaining about one of the workers, one of his right-hand men, and he said so, this is about so-and-so, isn't it? And I said, no, I said, actually it's about you. And he the look on his face and he truly repented. Like God used that incident. I'm not saying God used me. I'm saying God used that incident for true repentance for this man. He had no idea that he was acting that way or that he was, that his actions were so hurtful and he literally changed 180 degrees and God used that in his life.

Speaker 2: 26:00

So that's what I'm getting at is that, yes, we need to go to church and we need to be focused on worship, our relationship with God and how we can bless others. But sometimes God uses us to speak the truth in love to others. But you better be prayed up, you better know that. You know that. You know that. You know that it's God telling you to do it, that it's an assignment from him and not just you have a grudge against somebody and then you need to to take it like saturated in prayer before you even attempt to do it. Probably not wait as long as I did, because I think God was probably like come on, sherry, I asked you to do this three months ago, but he also knows me very well, so he knows that. You know I take a little bit of time, but I do.

Speaker 1: 26:46

He's like let me prepare her now, because it's going to take a minute Exactly.

Speaker 2: 26:51

So that is kind of what I got out of that chapter.

Speaker 1: 26:55

Sarah, yeah, and it's so important, like you said, that you important that you just say that, because a lot of times and I have to ask myself this in various relationships, whether it's family relationships or friendships I have to ask myself. And even if you're in a working environment I work from home now, so I don't necessarily have this issue anymore but even in coworker, you know type situations when I feel like something needs to be addressed, I have to. One of the first questions I have to ask myself is what is my motivation? And I have to rule out sour grapes, right? Am I sour about something or something they did, or the way they responded, you know, or something like that. And if I'm not completely sure, I'm like you, I will wait it out. And I'm like, okay, God, if this is you, you know what I'm saying, Just just keep, you know, he'll keep reminding you. And I'm like, okay, this isn't sour grapes, this really just does need to be addressed, this really just does need to be addressed. And so that is very, very, very important to be able to do that, whether it's with a church person or a church friend or a member of the congregation or whatnot, but it is. But you know, in this particular case he's Uncle Screwtape is encouraging Nephew Wormwood to intentionally, purposely, try to do anything he can, starting with his thought life, influencing his thought life, the young Christian's thought life, to bring him over to the dark side, to kind of guarantee him a path down a dark path. And he's just like you know. Let's just start with this. Let him focus on the wrongs of everybody else.

Speaker 1: 29:00

And I remember a family member telling me one time that they had got turned off, like significantly turned off, Like this just really really bothered them by something that had happened in their church from a young person, you know, into this church, into like almost like a young adult, I believe, to where they felt like they knew the people and everything in the leadership and trusted them. So when the worship leader, who was married, was found out to be having a relationship with one of the choir members or something who was also married, it just really set them on a path of no one in church can be trusted, Right, Because he was like but I knew these people and I knew their wives and I knew her husband and everything else, and then to come to find out that they were secretly having an affair for years and no one knew about it until recently. You know, he just felt like the trust was broken and by default he was like well, if I can't trust them and I've been knowing them since I was young then who can I trust in church? They're all a bunch of hypocrites, and that is exactly what Uncle Screwtape was trying to tell his nephew Wormwood.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Get them to focus on something else, because we need them out of church. We don't need them praying, we don't need them studying the word, we do not need them to hear a good, sound biblical doctrine. We need to focus them on something else. That would not only get them out of church but prayerfully get them to think that all Christians are hypocrites and that they're all alike and that none of them can be trusted alike and that none of them can be trusted. And then that leaves a wide open door for you to influence him and his thoughts into a whole different, dark path and almost guarantee him a place down here with us. So how?

Speaker 2: 31:13

do you counteract that Kara?

Speaker 1: 31:17

Well, like with this particular family member, they had someone in their life who was like you can't judge, you know the acts of two people. When it's all said and done, we have to remember okay, we have to remember that whether they've been in church for five minutes or 50 years, they are still human, they still bleed red, they are still sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. We are in a sinful world and, even though it was a shock and it was a betrayal, in cases like this, when it's a shock and a betrayal, we have to remember that they are still human. They made a horrible, horrible, horrible mistake and for years they lived in secret and in darkness and that comes with its own type of prison. So it's not like they're going to get away with that, but God is going to deal with them on that right, god will deal with that and we have to realize that people are human. And we also have to say oh, my goodness, lord, I am hurt, I am broken. I am so broken. I have such a church.

Speaker 1: 32:31

Hurt takes on so many various forms. Right, in this case it was you know the worship leader and you know one of the choir members, or whatever. In other cases it could be spiritual abuses by your pastor, your reverend, your bishop or your priest or you know something like that and to where they're saying, you know well, god says you got to do this, or God says you're not supposed to do that or you're not. You know what I'm saying Just when they take the abuse to a level that it's not supposed to be taken, and the same thing with other congregants, you know, and things like that. So church hurt comes in various forms, okay, and so all of us could be subject to it at one time or another. And sometimes it hurts and it cuts deep because we're feeling like the people that we thought we knew the best, who you know, we've did Bible study with for years, who we went to church with for years like how could they hurt me like that, how could they spread that lie about me? How could they you know cheat on their wife like that? How could they make a pass at my husband like that? How could they treat my kids like that? You know it hurts and it cuts and it goes deep sometimes, but we have to keep in mind that.

Speaker 1: 33:53

We have to keep in mind that those people are not representations of God when they do that their actions, if they're not God-like actions, they were not God-ordained. It is as simple as that. That just because they're bad and Christians, the label Christian pretty much means a representative of Christ. But, as all of us Christians know, know we are not always the best representatives, right, you know, at times, just watch some people in traffic. You know that have like the little symbol of the fish on a bumper, you know, and they have a scripture. But yet you see them in traffic and they're like swearing and doing things, you know, at people who are doing erratic driving, you know. So we're not always the best representative.

Speaker 1: 34:45

We have to separate the people and what they do from the God above, the God of love, the God, the most high God. That is not him, that is them. God has given people their own human will. They can do what they want to do, you know, and a lot of times, does God ordain that? No, he's probably been ministering and talking to them about their behavior and, seeing that they're walking in for a long time, they just decided they didn't want to give it up at whatever particular moment in time, for whatever reason. That does no representation of God. That is them that made their own choices to do that. So you can't associate that with what those people do with the God above, who is a God of love, because the most awesome thing about all of that is that, despite all of that betrayal, despite the people they hurt, including their own families and their spouses if they truly repent, god will welcome them like none of that even happened. And we've got to remember that because, who knows, when one day we make that one mistake that everyone's going to be looking at and be like, oh my goodness, I just didn't think that you would say that, do that be a part of that.

Speaker 1: 36:01

And so we have to, you know, extend grace, we have to extend mercy, we have to pray for God to heal the hurt so that we can move on, sometimes with them, sometimes not, depending on if they're repenting of their. They're repentant. If they have a repentant heart of their behavior, you know, then of course you know we can bring them back into our inner circle again If they're repentant. If they have a repentant heart of their behavior, you know, then of course you know we can bring them back into our inner circle again If they're not and they're like, yeah, I know, we're having a prayer, we plan on to keep having a prayer, and can you keep quiet about it, okay? Well then, you don't want any part of that, now that you know right, so you're not going to be a part of that. Can you still pray for them and pray that you know God that they do the right thing, absolutely? Do you still have to keep company with that? No, as a matter of fact, you don't want to, or things like that.

Speaker 1: 36:47

We have to extend mercy, we have to send grace, we have to extend forgiveness if they repent at heart, but most of all, we have got to ask God to heal our heart, our broken heart about it, because if not, the enemy seizes that opportunity to pull you out of that church, away from the good godly friends not the bad ones, the good godly friends and isolate you and into thinking all of this is bogus, all of this is fake news, all those Christians, everything the pastor said in church is the Bible even real, and everything else. And then you're down a dark, dark, dark path that could possibly last years and could, more importantly, cost you your eternal soul the whole time. The demonic influencers that put all of that in place and put all those thoughts in your mind are laughing. They're like that was a lot easier than I thought it would be. And now we got him and we got our claws in him and he's not even going to go back. He's so disturbed, so upset about what happened that it has completely changed his path. Now we got him in our eyesight and then when he dies he's ours.

Speaker 1: 38:05

We have to pay attention to that. We have got to pay attention. We've got to start seeing things with spiritual ears and eyes and not just our physical ones, because just how God pursues us and he rules our heart to have a relationship with him, you have someone else who is manipulating and deceiving and beguiling and bewitching and doing all these other things to make sure that you do not fall in love with your Savior and heaven forbid, have good Christian, bible-believing Christians in your circle who can help build you up when you go down. So we have got to be very, very careful of that. Hopefully that answered your question, sherry.

Speaker 2: 38:51

Oh, perfectly, perfectly. And I think the only thing that I want to add to everything that you said was that forgiveness is so important. We we need to make sure that we stay. If we have a grudge that we're holding, we need to make sure that we stay, forgiven up, forgived up, because that is one of the main ways, or that is one of the sneaky ways, for the enemy to get into our soul and to erode us with bitterness and hatred and hardness. That's the way that god or not god, sorry that's the way that the enemy likes to harden our hearts, and there's nothing worse than having a hardened heart as far as drawing us away from God and making us think that well, making us start to believe the lies of the enemy. So I guess I just want to really encourage people that church hurt is real. Church hurt is hard, like you said, it's one of one of the hardest ones to get through, but you not want to, um, you do not want to let the enemy get a foothold, you don't want to let him get get a pathway into your, into your soul, by holding a grudge, being bitter or not forgiving, choosing not to forgive, because Because, like you said, you're talking about your, your eternal soul, with this and, and, and. That's how serious it really is.

Speaker 2: 40:27

So if you want to talk to us more about um, any of what we just talked about today, if you want to do it privately, you can give us an email at cheeruppodcast at gmailcom. Or if you want to start a discussion on the Facebook group, we would love to have you start Privately. You can give us an email at cheeruppodcast at gmailcom. Or if you want to start a discussion on the Facebook group, we would love to have you start one and we would love to join in. All you have to do is go over to Facebook and look up Cheer Up Podcast. As Kara has said multiple times in the past, you do not need to answer any questions. There's no test involved. You just click on it and you're there. You belong, head over to Kara's website, kararhuntcom or sherryswalwellcom, and you can check out the different things that we have there.

Speaker 2: 41:12

I hope that you will join us at our website, but, more importantly, we hope that you will come back next week. We're going to be talking about human sexuality. That can be a hot topic at times, but come back next week and see how we tackle it. So have a great rest of your week. I hope that you are truly enjoying your summer months, or your summer days I hope they're long and lazy to an extent and, more importantly, that you feel blessed. So have a great week. We will see you next week. Thanks for being here.