Soul Snares

Screwtape Letters 20 & 21

In this encore episode of C.S. Lewis's, Screwtape Letters, we discuss letters 20 & 21, where the head demon Screwtape schools his nephew Wormwood on how to twist his humans “spare moments” into soul-snares—convince the human the schedule is his, and God's gentle interruptions will feel like theft. We unpack Screwtape's playbook against “time entitlement,” and ask the only question that matters: whose calendar are you keeping?

To listen to this episode, click or copy and paste the below link into your favorite browser -
 cheeruppodcast.buzzsprout.com

For a richer understanding of demons and their relationship with humans, we recommend where we discuss, in depth, the Scriptures that covers those topics -
 https://cheeruppodcast.buzzsprout.com/1633087/episodes/12990069-do-you-have-a-demon-assigned-to-you-an-encore-episode

Transcript

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Discussion on "The Screwed Tape Letters"

Speaker 1 0:19

Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Highcast . I am your host , kara R Hunt , and with me is the beautiful and talented Cheris Wah-wah . How are you doing on this beautiful , beautiful day in the Midwest , cheri ? Well , at least in my part of the Midwest .

Speaker 2 0:40

I'm telling you , the allergies this year have just really wreaked havoc . But aside from that , I am doing fantastic , oh God is so good , right , you know .

Speaker 1 0:53

And allergies , believe it or not , are just kind of our body's way of just saying you know , something is bothering me , right , the pollen in the air or the air quality , which , you know , recently has not been all that good because of just different things going on with wildfires and different things like that . It's just our body's just way of saying , okay , something's not quite right , but I'm getting there . I'm getting there , something's bothering me , something's irritating me , but I'm going to make it right , you know , and God is just so good , you know , to be there and to always be there for us and offer us exactly what we need when we need it , whether it's healing or whether it's a word from God , or even if it's a book . And why are you talking about a book here ? Okay , what does that got to do with anything ? That is because , for those of you who have been listening over the past couple of months , you know we are in almost not quite the middle , but not quite the end , of our summer series .

Speaker 1 2:04

In this summer we have been discussing one book and it is called the Screwed Tape Letters by CS Lewis , l-e-w-i-s . And it is a piece of classic literature and that was originally written , I believe , in 1941 . I think it has been published other times as well , but the original I believe was released with originally published in 1941 . And the book is called the Screwed Tape Letters because it is several letters , 31 of them to be exact , from screw tape , who is a demon , to his nephew Wormwood , who is a demon . Screw tape is a demon in a higher level of demon , in a higher hierarchy of demonism , I guess to say in hell . And his nephew Wormwood is new , he is a novice , he is a young demon and he is still trying to learn the ropes . And the book is called the Screwed Tape Letters because , through these letters , uncle Screw Tape is trying to mentor his nephew Wormwood on how to manipulate , deceive and torment , in other words , a new Christian that he has been assigned to . So , and in this case and I'm trying to remember back to the beginning of the book I do not believe the man was a Christian when Wormwood was first assigned to him , but then he became a Christian on Wormwood's watch , and the Uncle Screw Tape has not been happy with any of his decisions on stopping that or slowing that down or getting him to walk away from the Christian faith at all . So he's been writing these letters and mentoring to him and giving him tips and ideas on how to do that .

Speaker 1 4:03

So if you guys have been listening since the summer series started , which was the first week of June , then most of you have been following us up to this point . But if you're new and you're just tuning in right now , we highly encourage you , after you listen to this episode , to go back and listen to the June 7th episode . It was the first episode in the Screw Tape series and the reason we encourage you to go back there is because we not only tell you why we're reading the Screw Tape series , but we also let you know the biblical truth , the scriptural truth , the biblical foundation of demons , of what the Bible has to say about demons . Are demons real ? Can a Christian be possessed or oppressed by demons ? Are they real ? What is their purpose ? How did they happen ? How did they come about ? In that very first episode , we give you a lot of the biblical verses in there for you to go , study , talk about , share it , follow with friends and everything to give you a better knowledge of the topics that we're discussing .

Speaker 1 5:12

Regarding the Screw Tape letters , the book has 31 letters and so far we have covered letters 1 through 19 . So in today's episode we are going to be covering letters 20 and 21 . And I also want to add , for those of you who have been listening or just new listening , that if you guys would love to have an open discussion on this , then let us know , send us a an email at cheeruppodcast at gmailcom cheeruppodcast at gmailcom , and let us know that , yesi would like to know , to talk with you guys more about this topic . And when we get enough of those emails , with a minimum of 10 emails , we will open up a Twitter space . So then you would not just have to say here what Sherry and I thought or about the topics of the letters that we are covering . We can also hear everyone who's listening thoughts , but we would like to have at least 10 people before we open up a Twitter space to do that . And once we get enough people to open it up , we'll let everybody know about the date and times . But again , if you're like , yeah , I got something I want to add , or I got something I think you guys should , or that you missed or you should have brought up when you were discussing this particular letter from Screwtape . So we would love to have that input . We would love to have a live audio discussion about it . So if you would like that too , like I said , just send cheeruppodcast at gmailcom and email let us know and we'll compile the list and we'll be like okay , hey , on this date and this time we're doing a live Twitter space and we'll be able to do that as well . We still look forward to hearing your commentary , your feedback and your thoughts , so we're hoping that we definitely hear from you guys soon . Also , please don't forget to subscribe to get emails for the cheerup podcast and like it wherever it is available to do so . That just helps us in the algorithm and that way , if you enjoy listening to it , it'll help it pop up like in your friends and other people's algorithms as well .

Speaker 1 7:31

So in letter 20 , screwtape is talking about sexual taste , and this is pretty much piggybacking off of the previous letter we discussed in the last episode about how he's using falling in love , how he wants one word to tempt his patient to they call it patient in a book but to tempt his Christian , his newly assigned Christian human , to tempt him to fall in love so that he can fall into sexual sin . And so , and he's kind of picked this is letter 20 , kind of piggybacks off of that when he finds out that when one would write him a letter and say , yeah , uncle , screwtape , I tried all those things you suggested and guess what , this Christian is not falling for it . So he's like , and of course Screwtape , as always , is angry with his novice demon nephew Wormwood , and he's like well , can't you just do anything , right , you know ? So he said then , fine , we can get him to fornicate , we can get him to sleep around , we can get him to fall in love and be tempted to do all of those things . So now I'm going to write you a letter on how to , if he's intent on finding a woman to marry so that he don't fall into sexual sin , then we're just going to lead him to the wrong type of woman , you know .

Speaker 1 9:12

And so that's basically what he's doing . And he's like I , wormwood , I want you to put women in his path . That looks very , very good to him and physically , he's physically attracted to them . They have pretty eyes , gorgeous hair , wonderful smile , all of that jazz , maybe a beautiful figure . And he said , but they're , they need to be completely not godly . And Tim , tim um , to , to , to do things and go astray . So when they get married they won't be a strong unit , but they will be unequally yoke . Like he will be wanting to go to church and then she'll be wanting , she'll be wanting to sleep . Being because you know she persuaded him to go to a club the night , the night previously is basically summing up what he is saying . Given examples of what he is saying , what do you think of those , of that ploy of the enemy Sherry ?

Speaker 2 10:17

Well again , I think , with society today , unfortunately , that seems to be what society practices and preaches to if it feels good , do it . There are so many men , though I want to give a shout out to men nowadays , I think . I think in general , men are kind of put down and men are not appreciated for who they are and all that they do . And I think that when you have a man who is truly seeking God's best and seeking God's will for his life , it is exemplary . It is the exact opposite of the do what feels good message that everybody is given .

Speaker 2 11:03

And it is a breath of fresh air and a drink of cool water . As women , we have our parts to play . We are to be growing our relationship with God just as much as the men are . But when you have two people who are truly seeking after God's heart and seeking rendering their lives to God , wow , what a relationship that is grown and what a beautiful testimony to not perfection by any means not perfection , but just the gift and the beauty of seeing all that God can do and how he can then help you influence other people to keep that going , instead of the selfishness that we see so prevalently .

Speaker 1 11:58

Absolutely , and it is very powerful , which is why the enemy does not want it to happen . Exactly . Which is exactly why the enemy does not want it to happen ? Because if you are a powerful Christian alone , imagine how much stronger and the wonders and amazing things you could do for God when you have someone by your side who is just like you as far as zeal for the Lord and doing the work of the kingdom . So he wants to thwart that at any possible chance that he can get . In this case it's not that care of .

Speaker 2 12:38

But when you're tempted , that person can then help you get back on track , and they can . You can help them get back on track . So it's not only the deal and the passion for God , but it helps with the temptation part also .

Speaker 1 12:54

Absolutely , Because you could be tempted to say something like you know why we're so , I'm bored , let's go to something different and exciting , you know , and adventurous , something we've never done before . And even though it may not quote unquote be sinful , it can lead to a life of sin and you need that wise person on the side of you going . Yeah , no .

Speaker 1 13:14

You know and yeah , this is why , you know , and everything else , we can still find something you want to venture . Let's , let's , let's , let's , let's . Uh , look a vacation to go climb Mount Everest or something right ?

Speaker 1 13:29

You know , but , uh , not what you were thinking , um , because that could just lead to other issues for us down the road . And so you need someone so awesome to have someone like that . And you're like , yeah , no , what was I thinking ? Right , you know , um , and things like that . And so sometimes we do have those people , um , in our lives .

Speaker 1 13:50

And if you're a good Christian man that is listening right now , um , and you have someone in your life , a female that you're very interested in , and you're just like , I don't know , should I take this to the next level ? Should I ask them to marry me ? But there's something in you that's saying no , um , I just want to urge you to go to the book of judges . Correct me if I'm wrong on this , sherry . Go back to the . Uh , go read in the book of judges the story of Samson and Delilah . Samson Yep , okay , yes , yes , samson was a godly man whose heart was for the Lord , and he just really wanted to do the right thing , but his weakness was a woman named Delilah , and he should have broken off that relationship way before he eventually wait , he never did . She was one who broke it off when she betrayed him .

Speaker 1 14:48

Right and she was , yeah , and she betrayed him big time . For those of you have not read the story of Samson and Delilah , I don't want to run the ending for you so much , but because he didn't break off the relationship when he should have way before it got to the level that it did , that not only did Delilah betray him , she was working against him the whole time . She never had his best interest at heart . She always she always planned to betray him and ended up leading to their deaths at least Samson's death and a whole bunch of other people's deaths .

Speaker 1 15:27

I don't think the Bible makes clear the Delilah was killed during what ended up happening afterwards

Holy Spirit's Guidance and Time Entitlement

Speaker 1 15:36

.

Speaker 1 15:36

But I say that because it's a very cautionary tale about when the Holy Spirit has nudged you and saying this person is not for you , that you really need to listen to that .

Speaker 1 15:50

You really need to listen to it because there's a reason God does not want you to go into a deeper relationship with that person or even to let that relationship continue , because , even though you're in love with them and you can't see past them and everything else and you know that this person is good for you , but you really can't help yourself , you have to remember they may have a completely different agenda , a completely different ulterior motive . Even though you're on an assignment from God for what you want him , god wants you , to do in his life , they could be on an assignment from the enemy , from Satan himself , to completely ruin and destroy you . So I just wanted to just put that out there and for everyone to go . Read the book of Judges . Go to the book of Judges and in the Bible and read that cautionary tale there , and that's that's . That's anything you want to add to that , sherry .

Speaker 2 16:49

The only thing I want to add is that a wise friend made the comment yesterday that it , in it , just reiterates what you just said about the healing , the Holy Spirit voice , that , the Holy Spirit . We need to keep in mind that the Holy Spirit knows the big picture and sees further down the road than we ever will . So if he loves us enough to say , hey , I don't think you want to do that , we really need to pay attention because he's not doing it to again restrict our fun , like we've been talking about . He's doing it because of how much he loves us .

Speaker 1 17:23

Absolutely . And it all goes back to love , true love , true love and how much God truly loves us . And moving on to the let to the other letter we're going to cover in this episode before wrapping up is letter 21 and the screw tape letters . And we're .

Speaker 1 17:44

This one pretty much just talks about entitlement and screw tape pretty much tries to tell Wormwood , they try to tell , let him know how humans , you know pretty much , think that he is a very interesting take from one demon to another . So screw tape , uncle Screwtape , is telling his demon nephew Wormwood . He's in this letter . He's writing how Christians and people as a whole are entitled , and especially time . And he's talking about they always think that you know they have 24 hours in a day like it actually belongs to them . That is such entitlement the day , those 24 hours do not belong to them .

Speaker 1 18:35

And he's pretty much telling Wormwood to say and with Christians God tries to , you know they kind of walk and understand that the day actually belongs , those 24 hours actually belong to the Lord .

Speaker 1 18:48

So be it . Whatever happens , you know happens and everything else . And he said with your Christian , we need to remind him and let him not think that his 24 hours are his right . We have to remind him that when he's going to work , that out of that 24 hour cash that he has , that at least eight of those are being withdrawn from him due to his job , you know . And then if it's a Sunday , then that's at least two to three hours that's also withdrawn against his account , not to mention the time he has to spend with family and friends and , you know , on everything else that you know , take away from his time that he thinks belongs to him or that he tries to devote to God . And he encourages Wormwood to employ a strategy that would encourage his Christian human to become so upset on the demands that have been encroached upon his time that he becomes angry , exasperated and impatient . What do you think of that strategy of the enemy , sherry ?

Speaker 2 20:01

Well , I think you talked to the beginning of August about how this classic novel is timeless , and is that the epitome of the 2000s ? We all feel like we're entitled to X , y and Z and it changes and it doesn't matter , because if you feel it , you feel it , and if you , if you think it , you think it and wow , that's all I can say is wow , like how timeless is this novel ?

Speaker 1 20:32

Absolutely right and it's like so what was relevant back then , when he wrote it in the 40s , Is there relevant today ? How many years later ? I'm not going to do a quick math because I don't want to embarrass myself , but it's like all these years later .

Speaker 1 20:47

And it just goes to show you that the enemy doesn't necessarily have to come up with any new strategies , he just has to implement the old ones over and over and , over and over and over again . And we all fall victim to something like this . Just the other day , someone had shared with me some news that I was just not expecting . As a matter of fact , it was , it was okay . So it was Tuesday , tuesday evening or Tuesday afternoon , and so one was like hey , tomorrow , this , this , this , this and this has got to happen . And I'm like , hold on , wait a minute . Nope , that is not how I planned my Wednesday to go . So pretty much kind of like what he was , you know , talking about the letter . I'm like , no , I got this particular thing that I have to get done early in the morning on Wednesday , and then I have this thing and I got the whole day planned out and I do not have time for that . Well , the thing ended up having to have to happen , so I had to completely readjust my schedule and I got very upset about that , angry . And then I just remember and I'm so glad for God , this is how much he loves . He loves us . I just remember , I remember being so upset about it , like , well , there goes my whole day and everything that I planned that that means on Saturday I'm going to have to make up for , which I really didn't want to do , and it was like I started to feel myself become very angry and impatient about it and I some of my , my excuse me , my three favorite words when I feel myself getting very upset and about to go to the next level of angry is Jesus , jesus , jesus . I love doing that because it gets my focus off of me and what I've had planned for my day and how I want it my day to go , and back onto Jesus , jesus , jesus . And it kept , it keeps my mind centered on okay , lord , here it is I , and what good is it going to do me to get up all upset about it ? Anyway , it has to be done . You know right , and I don't know .

Speaker 1 22:58

The amazing thing about that was like , maybe less than an hour later , I have such a piece about it , I had such a piece about it and it was like and yesterday , the yesterday , uh , morning and afternoon , um ended up going a lot smoother than I thought it would , even all of us having that unexpected thing happen . That took out a huge chunk of time and I just was like , okay , I'm just going to get up early , still try to get down what I need to get done , even though it's going to still be dark outside and the moon is out . I'm still just going to do that so I don't lose too much ground . You know what I was planning to do and the end just do it . And it all went smoothly and everything else .

Speaker 1 23:42

God helped me change my perspective on it and and help me recognize like it's it's going to happen . Okay , so why are you getting so upset about it ? And besides , how do you not know that this is part of my plan all along ? This could be a divine interruption and it just completely changed my perspective . Has that ever happened to you , sherry ?

Speaker 2 24:03

He has been working with me on that for the last well , for years , but for the last year , the last six months , I can say that he has honestly , really , really helped me in that , as far as when interruptions come and I get mad , just like you , I sit there and I say okay , God , I'm giving it over to you . I'm not , I'm not thrilled with this , but I'm getting over to you and I'm trusting you with my schedule .

Speaker 2 24:33

I'm trusting you know what I need to get done , you know what needs to happen , you know what's a non-negotiable for me . I'm just trusting you . And nine times no , 10 times out of 10 , he knocked it out of the ballpark and he and I shouldn't be amazed anymore . In fact , I'm getting right .

Speaker 1 24:51

Why are we still amazed ? We're going to ask .

Speaker 2 24:54

And I'm getting to the point where I'm like okay , god , this is yours . And in fact , I saw something on social media , and I don't remember what it was Probably a Facebook reel or something but I I saw something and I thought . I don't remember , I wanted to write the wording down because I didn't and I wish I had but something along the lines of this this person their kid , came home drunk , and that's not the point of the story , but their kid came home drunk and they didn't know what to do about it , and so instead they just looked up to the ceiling and they said okay , god , you get to take care of this impossible situation . I'm going to bed . And the whole point of it was okay , give it over to God , because he's someone that has the answers . Anyway , you don't need to lose even a lick of sleep because he's going to take care of it .

Speaker 2 25:42

So , whether it's a drunk child that you don't know how to handle , whether it's a schedule that got interrupted and you don't know how you're going to fit everything in , whether it's a cancer diagnosis , whether it's a unexpected death , whatever it is , god got it , and when we figure that out and when we hand it over to him , the sooner we do that . Like you said , the peace is there . Despite , like , all the reasons of why you shouldn't have peace , you still have it anyway . It's that unwavering , unexplainable peace that God's got this . He's not going to let us go and all we have to do is sit back and say okay , god , have fun with this impossible situation . I'm going to bed .

Speaker 1 26:28

And just hand it over to him . And it's like because why , I'm sitting here and I , in a way , I'm kind of frustrated yet astonished at myself , like why did I let myself get that angry , you know , or upset , getting ready to go to angry , you know , which would lead to ranting and other people have nothing to do with it , by the way , you know and everything else and I'm like why did I just let myself get that upset ? I'm just so glad because in the past because , like you , sherry , the Lord has been dealing with me for quite a long time , years and in the past I used to let that anger just stir and stir and stir and stir and stir , and even after the incident happened or the interruption rather happened , I'll still be mad about it . Well , if this hadn't happened , then I would have been able to get this done , I would have been able to do that , and it just would have been discontent for the next two to three days .

Speaker 1 27:25

And now I'm so glad that he loves me enough that he's been patient enough to just give me to the point to where , within minutes , he's like Kara , what are you doing ? Why are you getting so upset ? And I , which is like awakening me to like , okay , yeah , hold on , wait a minute , why am I ? Okay , lord , help me , help me to calm down . And Jesus , jesus , jesus . He's gotten it to where it took me a being so angry to our last shout at other people , same other people , for something that they had no control over , and then be a discontent for the next couple of days because I'm like , oh well , if it wasn't for this get interrupted and this , this and that , and he's got me to the point to where , like within minutes , he's getting me to recognize it and to turn it over to him . And that is how much he loves us , amen .

Speaker 2 28:17

And on that I think that we are going to let people think about that truth .

Christian Life and Historical Jesus

Speaker 2 28:24

Next week , come back . We're going to talk about Christian life and historical Jesus . Jesus himself said in John 1633 , these things . I have spoken to you , that in me you may have peace In this world . You will have tribulation , but be of good cheer , I have overcome the world . I just absolutely love that and I can't read that without just feeling God's overwhelming love for us over and over and over . I am so glad that you're here . Care is so glad that you're here . If you have a question or need prayer or want encouragement , head over to the Tira podcast at gmailcom and drop us a line . We love to hear from our listeners . We love to hear from new listeners . We hope that you're really enjoying the screw tape letters that we've been working on this summer and that are going into September . And if you want to join a Twitter , tell me again . I am so sorry . Twitter space .

Speaker 1 29:24

There we go . It's called a Twitter space . It's I think it's fairly new within the past couple of months and it's just live audio , with people all getting together to talk about one topic .

Speaker 2 29:35

So join us , or if you're interested in joining us on a Twitter space , then email us and let us know , or start a conversation in the Facebook or the Cheer Up Facebook Cheer Up Podcast Facebook group . There we go . My words are not coming . Maybe I need another dose of coffee this morning , Kara .

Speaker 2 29:55

I don't know , but we would love to hear from you , because if you guys are interested and there's enough of you , then we would be interested in doing that too . I've always wanted to be a part of a book club . This kind of sounds like , or feels like , a book club to me , so I think it would be awesome , but we need more people than just Kara and I , because Kara and I do this every week . So Kara's website , karaarchunkcom , or head over to my website , charryslawlcom , and there are lots of resources that will help you grow your relationship with God , that will point you to the one who has all the answers and who gives us that unwavering piece that we talk about , the unending joy that we talk about , the spite or insight of our circumstances , not because of our circumstances . God is so amazing , and I hope that you hear the joy and the love that we have for him through our words every week , through our tone , through our voice , because there is just nothing greater than being a child of God . And if that is something that you're interested in , something that God , the Holy Spirit , has been nudging your heart about , and you want to say that prayer , romans 10-9 tells us that when we speak it and believe it that we will be saved . So I invite you to join me in this prayer .

Speaker 2 31:16

If that is something that God has been nudging you about , that you want to start that relationship with God , that you might not completely understand what it is , but you know that God wants you to do it , just repeat after me oh Heavenly Father , I come to you in Jesus' name . I believe you died on the cross and that you rose again and you're seated on the throne . Jesus , forgive me for all that I have done wrong and I choose to forgive all others . Come into my life today and forever . I am yours in Jesus' name

Family Welcome and Next Week's Plan

Speaker 2 31:55

. Amen . Welcome to the family . We are so glad that you're here and come back next week , and we're going to continue the last four weeks to the last 10 chapters of the book . Yes , I had to count , because my math is not good either .

Speaker 2 32:14

Have a great rest of your week and we will talk to you next week . Bye-bye , konoka O ummari .