Demons & Relationships

Ready for a deep dive into the devilish realm of demons and their purpose? This episode of the Cheer Up Podcast sparks thought and prompts debate as we unpack the masterpiece, The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis. We delve into the narrative of Screwtape, a seasoned demon, coaching his inexperienced nephew, Wormwood, as they manipulate their newly assigned Christian human. We expose the raw truth about demonization, possession, and the very essence of these supernatural beings through a biblical lens. For a richer understanding of demons and humans, we recommend revisiting our July 3, 2024 episode.

Chapters

• 0:19 Exploring Love, Marriage, and Temptation
• 14:05 Committed Love and Temptation

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast. I am your host, carer R Hunt, and with me is the beautiful and talented Sherri Swalwell. How are you doing today, sherri?

Speaker 2: 0:33

I am doing fantastic. Today is a little bit overcast. Last week was bright and sunny, but you know what, as we've talked about multiple times, I am starting to really love the overcast days as much as, or maybe even more sometimes than, the bright and sunny days, because, I don't know, there's just something really cozy and comforting. Well, god's with us in the sunshine and God's with us in the rain. I just love that. There's nothing better.

Speaker 1: 1:06

I know, even you know, you get to the point where or rather, I have some days where the sun is out and everything is just beautiful and all of its sunshine and glory, and I'm like, yeah, but I kind of wish today was overcast. Yeah, I think the reason I tend to do that is because it's kind of depending on my mood, because you know sunshine and gorgeous days, you're like, hey, I want to get out, I want to walk, I want to go do things, I want to garden, I want to do all these other things. It's like energy, right, you want to just soak up the beautiful day, but sometimes it could be a beautiful day, but I'm in an overcast mood. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:47

Absolutely. We are not even a pod.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yes, but I'm in an overcast mood, meaning not necessarily that I'm feeling down and out and sad, but that I'm just more contemplative. Does that make sense? Like I just more of a mood to where I just want to think about things, you know, just think things through, whether it's regarding relationships, friendships, a Bible study, a Bible verse I just read someone I just talked to something that's happening or going on in the world. It's like sometimes I just want to be able to just be more contemplative in that. And why I'm able to do that better on overcast days, I have no idea. I guess because I don't have the distraction of the sun. Right, very true, it's like meaning the sun being a distraction, and what I mean by that is I don't have the sun competing for my attention. Right, it's so beautiful. Out, I roll, roll, roll, get out. You know what I'm saying. And so it's like, when it's more overcast, it's like you know what, today's a perfect day. I'm going to give me a hot cup of cacao or a hot cup of tea, you know, or even some coffee, and I'm just going to sit back and think about some things for a minute. You know, some things I've been kind of letting go by the wayside. But I really need to think these through and perhaps make some decisions regarding on moving forward or not moving forward with something Right, and those days just overcast days just seem perfect for that. So I had. But regardless of whatever day, whatever mood you're in today, whether you're in a such shiny day mood or if you're in more of a overcast, more contemplative mood, we want to welcome you to the Cheer Up podcast and for those of you who return weekly, nationally and globally our listeners we just want to thank you and especially for our global listeners, we want to know that we see you, we know that you're there and that you're listening, and we just don't want you to think we ever take that for granted. So thank you for always tuning in when you can to be able to listen to the Cheer Up podcast. And if you're new to the Cheer Up podcast, welcome. And right now you're stepping into a series that we have been doing since the beginning of June. For June, july, august and for September we're doing something called our Summer Series, but it's based on one book and that book is called the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis, l-e-w-i-s is a piece of classic literature work originally published in the 1940s and it's about letters from one demon to another demon, because Screwtape is a demon and that's what the book is about.

Speaker 1: 4:44

It's 31 letters from Screwtape to his demon nephew, wormwood. They're both demons. Screwtape is just in a hierarchy of a demon because he's been here so long. Wormwood is new to demonhood and Screwtape is mentoring him through letters on how to handle the new Christian human that he has been assigned to. Well, when he was first assigned to Wormwood, if I remember correctly, he wasn't a Christian, but somehow, on Wormwood's watch, you know, the person he was assigned to became a Christian. Screwtape has not been happy with him ever since and he's been writing him these letters saying, hey, we're going to try this, we're going to try that, we're going to try this, we're going to try that and everything else to get him back firmly on the dark side. And so that's what the book it's basically about and, like I mentioned, it's 31 letters.

Speaker 1: 5:43

And please go back and listen to our June 7th episode, which is the first episode of the Summer Series, where it talks about why we're reading the screw tape letters and it also gives lots of biblical truths about. Excuse me, we also share scriptures that share biblical truths about demons and demonization. And is it real? Can people be demonized? Can people be possessed? Can animals? Are there real demons out there? What are their purpose? And so we give tons of scriptures on that so you can have more of a biblical, so that there's more of a biblical basis, as we went forward with the screw tape letters, since it is about two demons, and then, after that episode, we have covered in the past couple of months letters one through 17.

Speaker 1: 6:35

So if you're interested in discovering those topics again, we're not reading the book per se we are going through the main topics of each letter that Uncle Screwtape is writing to his demon nephew Wormwood. And so to this episode, we are going to be covering letters 18 and 19. And letter 18 is about love and marriage. Well, and, wow, that sounds really sweet, doesn't it Like really, the demons are talking about love and marriage? Yeah, okay, but it's not in a way that you think.

Speaker 1: 7:15

So it is more about how Screwtape wants his nephew, demon Wormwood, to understand, and to get his human to understand, that following God's standard pretty much means any type of sexual activity within any type of sexual activity.

Speaker 1: 7:40

There's only two choices in God's world. This is what Screwtape wants Wormwood to really hammer down to his human, who's a new Christian. It's either abstinence or there's monogamy. And Screwtape is like right now you're a young Christian man, he is not married, so we're going to work on that sexual activity part of him, because he's about in his 30s, you know, and since he's in his 30s, you know, or something, we're just going to really kind of focus on this relationship and trying to get him to do things outside of what God is talking about. We want to let him know that, unlike God, we don't just focus on abstinence or monogamy. There's so much more and that's what Screwtape is trying to get Wormwood to teach his new human, who's a Christian, that he's been assigned to and to get him all confused about real love and real marriage and all the sexual activity that is in between of what God wants for this young man. So what are your thoughts on this, sherry?

Speaker 2: 8:53

Well, first off, having grown up in a very conservative church, we were always taught that if you have sex outside of marriage it's a sin, but we were never really taught the why behind it. Why is it a sin? Why does God not want us to do it? So I grew up again I've shared this multiple times that God was a punisher and he just didn't want me to have any fun he wanted and I'm not just talking about sex here, I'm just talking about everything. So, like everything that the world says is fantastic, god's the killjoy and says no, don't do that.

Speaker 1: 9:36

No, you can't have that.

Speaker 2: 9:36

God's the killjoy and says, no, don't do that. No candy, no gluttony, no, no, no. But I think that when we shift to the focus and we explain to people, explain to kids, explain to we actually have had sermons on this in our church, which I absolutely love, and we've explained it to our kids this way that this is why God says no sex before marriage. It's not because he's being a killjoy, it's not because he doesn't want you to have fun. It's because he knows that when you have sex with somebody, you're giving them a piece of your heart and you're giving them a piece of your soul. And if you want to have a lasting loving relationship with a husband or a wife not that you can't if you've had sex outside of marriage or had sex before marriage, I'm not saying that God is the God of redemption. God is a redeemer. God can change anything and everything. But if you want to go into marriage with less baggage, if you want to go into marriage the way that God intended it, where your heart is intact, your soul is intact and you are able to then give that gift to your future husband or your future wife, that is like the epitome, that is like the perfect will of God. That is what it means to be under the perfect will of God.

Speaker 2: 11:00

Can God redeem mistakes? Absolutely, 100 percent. Does God expect us to be perfect? Absolutely not. Do people sin in this area all the time? Absolutely. But if you want to have your best chance of having less baggage when you go into marriage and having a strong marriage to begin with, without having to go through all of these issues that don't necessarily have to be there, that is why God tells us to have to abstain and not have sex outside of marriage.

Speaker 2: 11:31

So when it is explained in that way and when it is explained as to why God has those commands and why God gives you those instructions, it makes it so much easier to obey because you're doing it out of love. You're doing it because you are coming from the perspective that God loves you and wants the best for you, and it's just a win-win for everybody. So I think that when we approach this topic, it needs to be brought out. Why does God want us to do things his way? And sometimes, yes, we have to simply just obey. God said do it. God said don't do it. Okay, I'll do it, I won't do it. But when we hear the why behind it and hear the love behind that why. For me, it just changes everything.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Well, it gives you something to hold on to, right.

Speaker 2: 12:26

Right.

Speaker 1: 12:27

When temptation comes unknocking because it always does and that kind of goes into what letter 19 is about, where the topic on that one is using love and by that Uncle Screwtape is telling his nephew Warnwood you know this whole love thing, we can use that to work for us, right? He's like of course God wants the whole love part and he loves them so much and everything else and God tries to get them to think one way of love. He was like, but we can use falling in love to our advantage with them falling in love with someone else. We can use that. That basically goes right along with what you were sharing, sherry, because it's like we're taught you know, a lot of times, especially like you when you're younger, you're taught you don't do that, you don't do that, you save yourself a marriage and you know things, and you're just like, okay. But no one really answered the question why. And it's so important what your church is doing and how we handle our kids now, because we tell them that God put the guard rails in place for a particular reason, and it's not so that you can't have any fun, not so that you can enjoy life. He's just saying I want you to enjoy your whole life and by observing these, what I'm asking you to do, you'll be able to see how it's going to bless you down the road.

Speaker 1: 14:05

And letter 19, uncle screw tape is telling his demon nephew Wormwood they're both demons, he's telling Wormwood hey, you know pretty much, are there any cute girls in his neighborhood or whatever you know, or anyone that he's interested in?

Speaker 1: 14:25

Give me an update on that, because we can use falling in love to help tempt his need for sexual fulfillment, because he's only hearing from his church and from his you know, his church, his Christian walk so far that there's only abstinence or there's monogamy.

Speaker 1: 14:51

So he's telling Wyrmwood that, hey, so far you're Christian. Along his journey he just thinks that there is just monogamy or there's abstinence. Well, he's not married right now. So we're going to use him falling in love with someone and tempt him that way, and then maybe we'll be able to bring him back over to our path down the garden path of darkness, basically. So let's find him someone to fall in love with, because once he falls in love with this person, all those feelings of falling in love come into play and then we can insert the temptation spirit right and because, and then when he falls into it and gives into it, he could just say, well, we were in love, so it doesn't really matter. As long as we love each other, it's okay what we do, and then we can deceive him from that aspect. What are your thoughts on that ploy from the enemy, sherry?

Speaker 2: 15:54

Oh, I hear that all the time. Or our society today says just move in with each other, you need to try. I remember I was like 10 years old, so we're talking like 40 years ago. I remember this guy. I don't even know who he was, I don't remember if we were like at a shoe store or if it was like a salesperson that had come to our house. That part I don't remember, but I remember he was pretty young, probably the patient's age, and he was saying to my mom that he was getting ready to move in with his girlfriend and I don't think he knew my mom was a pastor's wife at that point and he so my mom said something to him about well, why don't you just get married? And he said well, it's kind of like. Maybe that was it.

Speaker 2: 16:39

I think he was in our house for some reason, because the example he gave was well, kind of like you don't buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first. You don't get married but without trying it on first. Well, when you do it society's way, when you listen to those lies, then the commitment isn't as strong that studies have shown, whether you're a believer or not a believer if you live with somebody before you get married, the odds of getting divorced are so much higher and like, even from a practical standpoint, I don't know, maybe it's a girl thing, but I want to know that this person is committed to me like I want to know that they're not going to leave me. In fact, right when we got married, there was people who were very close to us were in the middle of a divorce, so we got married on Saturday. They left each other on Monday.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Wow.

Speaker 2: 17:42

How insecure was I? Oh my gosh. I just committed my life to this guy and these people, who I never thought would ever leave each other, are getting a divorce. Like, lord help me. Like, how do I know that this is right? How do I know that this is going to stick? And it's just so important to do it God's way. And I'm not saying that that my husband and I have never had, you know, fights or conflicts or whatever. But one thing I can say is I know without a shadow of a doubt that he's committed to me and I'm committed to him, and it's probably only by God's grace that he's committed to me someday. But you know what? I'm so grateful that he is.

Speaker 1: 18:28

But that's what true commitment is about, right.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 18:32

That's what true commitment is about. It's not just when the times are good right. It's when the times are bad and sometimes difficult Right exactly. I am committed to this person, no matter how crazy they act sometimes. Exactly. I am committed to this person. How insane the ideas of something sometimes come across, I am committed to this person for life. Come ups or down, heels of valleys, mountains of slopes, we, we I'm in this, you know to use today's vernacular their ride or die.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Yeah, Absolutely, and it's wonderful that's a blessing actually to have someone like that in your corner. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 19:19

You know there's, there's just there's just there's a. There's a beauty to it, right, Because you know you don't ever intend or want to take it for granted. But you know you can wake up on those days and you just technically woke up on the wrong side of the bed, right, and you're just snappy, you know, and fussy, and you know just picky and naggy, you know, and everything else. And there's such comfort in knowing that at the end of the day, even though you may have your tinted tinted, you know throughout the day with your spouse, you know at the end of the day that you're going to come together, right, and you're going to have a conversation about whatever begs you that particular morning or whatever, and you're able to come together. They don't walk out, they don't leave, they don't say. There's comfort in knowing that they're not going to say I had enough, I am so done with you and your naggingness or whatever the case may be, I'm done, see you later, sayonara. And they just walk out the door.

Speaker 1: 20:24

When you're in a committed relationship with someone, you that there's such a uniqueness to that and a love to that that, despite the ups and downs because we all know they're going to happen that that person is committed to you no matter what, no matter what, and that's the truth of it. That is the truth of it, and that's what true falling in love is about. And that's when the enemy can't use it, because you've fallen in love in a godly way and you have a godly mindset towards your relationship and you're doing your best to try to, when you're in a falling in love stage, to just keep that as sacred as it should be. And then, when you go into marriage, when all the other things start happening, you're still committed to each other and there's just, there's something about that that is awesome, that you just have, whereas you just know that someone always is going to be there and love you at your worst, and that is so like God. Am I right, sherry? Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 21:33

That happened just yesterday. So we're dealing with grief in our family right now. We've lost my in-laws within six months of each other, both very suddenly, and there's five of us that live here and we all grieve differently. We all have different emotions and feelings depending on the day, depending on the hour, and so yesterday I was just kind of I don't know, like you said, just kind of itchy, scratchy, and I knew that it wasn't anybody. I wasn't upset at anybody, I just I was done peopling, I was just done, I was just done.

Speaker 1: 22:11

And.

Speaker 2: 22:11

I knew enough about myself to know I better just be quiet, because if I open my mouth I'm going to take it out on other people, and those that I love don't deserve to have anything taken out on because I'm just, I'm walking the grief walk.

Speaker 1: 22:24

So, anyway.

Speaker 2: 22:25

So I was really really quiet in the car. We had had to go to a doctor's appointment together, and so it's really quiet in the car coming home and then I was, excuse me, busy doing other things and so it wasn't really talking. But when we finally got to sit down to dinner, my husband and I just kept exchanging looks and the looks for just basically I love you, like I'll squeeze here a look of there. Just I know you're in my corner, I know you're right here. I have no clue what's going on with you right now, sherry, but I don't need to just know that I'm right here. No explanation was needed. I wasn't mad at anybody, it was just one of those days and it's just like you said.

Speaker 2: 23:10

It's so comforting to know that you don't have to have the words. You don't have to. Sometimes you have to have the discussions and the conversations, but sometimes you don't even have to have that, just that assurance of knowing that that person is on your side and in your corner and that you're doing it. God's way is just like he designed it that way, like you said, for a reason and for a purpose. No-transcript it does enhance and bless and make our lives better. It really truly does.

Speaker 1: 23:44

It absolutely does, because you're complimenting each other and in a case like you just described, what happened between you and your husband yesterday it was no words needed to be spoken because he knew you were grieving, right, he knew the whole house was grieving and that sometimes and if for anyone who's ever dealt with grief, then you know it hits you weird sometimes.

Speaker 1: 24:05

You know, some days you're okay, you're like, okay, I'm good, okay, I think I can make it today without crying or being in a mood right, and in other days it just hits you, you know, and everyone is different. And how sweet, how beautiful that in this particular case, all that was needed for you to know that you were understood and that you were heard and that you were known was for him to just share glances with you Exactly. Isn't that so godly? That is just so godly. He didn't need to say words, he didn't need to say anything. He just need to know I got you, I understand, I know what you're going through and I'm here for you. There's such a beauty in that, and that's something that the enemy always wants to try to attack, but he can't when you're focused on God. So in that case, like that, he can't use love against you because it's a true love, and that is the type of falling in love and true love that we really, truly need to focus on.

Speaker 2: 25:08

Amen, amen. And on that note, we are going to come back next week and talk about sexual taste and entitlement. Hmm, how do those two go together? Come back next week and you'll find out. So our first for the Cheer Up podcast is, or our key verse for the Cheer Up podcast is John 1633.

Speaker 2: 25:32

Jesus said these things. I have spoken to you, meaning he told the people kind of what was ahead, that in me you may have peace In this world. You will have tribulation, but we have good cheer because I have overcome the world. There is just so much comfort in knowing that there is nothing that we will face day in or day out that God is not aware of, that surprises him or that catches him off guard. And I love the fact that God wins in the end, that the bad guys always lose and in fact they've already lost, which is one of the reasons why they're working so hard to bring as many people with them as they can. We started the podcast as an encouragement to people, to point us to the one who has the answers and to point us to the one who gives us encouragement, hope and peace in this world. If you have questions, if you need prayer or encouragement. Email us at cheeruppodcastgmailcom. We love to hear from our listeners and we love to connect with them. Another way that we can connect is through the Facebook group Cheer Up podcast on Facebook. Send over to Cara's website, caraarhuntcom, or you can check out my website, cheeryswallwellcom. Both have lots of materials and resources to help you grow your relationship with God.

Speaker 2: 27:05

If you love fiction, biblical fiction you've got to check out Cara's the Habakkuk Series. They are amazing. She is an amazing writer. I've known her for over 10 years when she wrote her first book. It has not been published yet, but I cannot wait until you guys get to read it too. Oh, my goodness, it is part of the Habakkuk Series and you will not be disappointed. Her books have won two awards. They've been nominated for many more, so check them out. Truly. You will be glad that you did have a great rest of your week this week. Continue to have those conversations with God. Ask Him questions, bring Him into your day, ask Him what he wants to show you today, how he wants to bless you today and how he wants you to bless other people through the gifts that he has given to you. You will be surprised at how he loves to answer and the different answers that he ends up giving you. Have a great rest of your day and we will talk again next week.